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标本名称: | Major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China. | ||||
简要病史: | In the past 30 years, China has transformed significantly and made outstanding achievement in many fields. For example, China now has the best high-speed trains, best 5 star hotels, best shopping malls, and so on. That is all wonderful. But in the meantime, pathology services in China have not been improved portionally. | ||||
肉眼检查: | 中国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前. |
诊断: 症结就在于 pathology as an important medical discipline is misclassified in China。
I agree with many points made by “不能考执业医师的病理研究生们都来看看”. In fact, “病理研究生无法报考执医而从业” is only one of the major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China. There are several other related issues and serious challenges.
I. 症结就在于 pathology is misclassified in China。In most part of the world, including U.S.A, pathology service belongs to one of key clinical disciplines! But pathology diagnostic service in China is classified as “second class, auxiliary” clinical discipline.
The inappropriate classification of pathology in clinical disciplines determines the social-economic status of pathology and pathologists. As a result, the misclassification of pathology causes subsequently three key problems, among others:
(1) The status of pathology service is not well respected by other “major” clinical services. 病理学科在疾病的诊断和治疗中的关键作用有目共睹. Pathology diagnosis is the gold standard! But in China, only when a malpractice happens, people (the CEOs, presidents of the hospitals) realize the importance of pathology. Otherwise, not much attention is paid to pathology. 病理科是不讨好的科室. Pathologists are just humble “grandchildren” in the hospital. 病理科 often time has small work spaces, unfavorable locations, and very limited resource allocations of the hospital budget.
(2) 病理医生低收入. In USA, pathology is very competitive medical discipline, and pathologists in USA are paid reasonably well compared to other clinical disciplines! One of the main reasons is that the pathology diagnostic service fees in USA consist of “professional component (about 70%), and material/instrument component (about 30%)”. But in China, the services fees consist mainly of material/instrument component. We need to change this: pathologists in China need to get higher salaries!
(3) Because of the above 1 and 2, 中国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前. A lot of young students with interest and knowledge of pathology are ending up doing something else!
I have visited more than 80 Chinese hospitals/university medical centers since I practiced pathology in U.S.A in 1999. There are significant shortages of good dedicated pathologists in China. Many places re-hired retired pathologists/professors since talent young medical students want to do other medical disciplines rather than pathology because the above problems. As a matter of fact, the situation was not the same when I was studying pathology in China in early 1980. At that time, pathology service was still considered as a clinical discipline as other major medical disciplines and many dedicated medical graduates chose pathology as a career.
II. In summary, new policy should be considered to address problems of pathology in China. New policy should be discussed, planned, tested, and implemented based on three major aspects, namely professional input, international standards, and the demands from the society!!
(1). Professional input, as stated in the above, is already very clear.
(2). International standards are also easy to check via web, international pathology organizations, and international pathologists including myself.
(3). The demands from the society, from the patients, are very high. China has transformed significantly during the past 30 years. For example, China now has the best 5 star hotels, best high-speed trains, and best shopping malls. That is wonderful. But pathology services have not been improved during the same period of time. In fact, they are becoming worse. China, and Chinese people need the best pathologists!! Chinese patients need to enjoy the best quality of pathology diagnosis services!!
III. We need to work together to solve the problems. Each and everyone of the pathology community have the responsibility and duty to respond to the problems. We need every 病理医生积极主动参与的热情. The following are major suggestions:
(1). To mobilize all national and local pathology organizations. It is very important to act as a massive group, with a stronger voice! To mobilize the media: newspapers, websites, radio and TV stations. Huaxia Pathology website is a very useful platform. To unite organizations of other medical disciplines, which are relied on pathology services.
(2) To address the issues one by one directly: namely RECLASSIFY PATHOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC SERVICE AS A MAJOR CLINICAL MEDICAL DISCIPLINE!! SO IT WILL promote the social-economic status of pathology service and pathologists among the professional field of medicine.
By doing this, the whole landscape of pathology will change: more and more people will do pathology, more and more resources will be allocated to pathology services and pathology research. The final mission of medicine, serving the patients well, will be accomplished. However, these all need the involvement of pathology organizations and every pathologist. Everyone can make a contribution to this effort.
To address the problem of 病理研究生无法报考从业, it also needs to 制定一个严格的完善的准入、管理体系, 准许病理研究生直接参加医师考试. But 病理研究生 still needs to be trained for additional years before being allowed to sign out pathology diagnosis report.
为发展中国的病理事业, 为病理学科后继有人,Let’s work together!
I certainly will try my best to contribute to this long-term project.
谈东风 May 27, 2010 from Houston.
不过我觉得
现状病理科的未来是很光明的,重要的是我们自己要团结一起去努力!
现在病理科的人才梯队在建立,优秀人才在引进和培养。
在我医院病理科有35人,诊断医生有15人,百分九十都是研究生,还有2个博士,病理科在医院是相当重要的科室,医院成立的每个专业治疗小组必须要有病理科人员的参加,疑难病理讨论时也需要有病理科人员的参加!医院很多的大的课题和文章也需要我们病理地支持和参与!现在在我们分子病理得到稳步开展的时候,我们更好的为临床服务,临床也更需要我们的支持!是非常需要我们的支持!临床经常要求我们科的人员给他们讲课,他们现在也在重新认识病理科,更依赖我们病理了。在引进厂家后,我们年轻人员的培训,病理自身的良性发展也得到了很好的保障!
所以随着这几年我们全科的努力,我们可以感觉到我们的地位在提高!
当然我们做的还有很多,比如我们的风险和收入不成正比,比如如何提高我们在社会上病理科的地位以及在病人心中的地位,我们的路还很长,需要的努力还要很多!
当然我们不能一步到位,像谈教授希望的那样,把病理科达到那么高的位置!当然这些是我们努力地方向和目标!
相信我们病理科的明天一定会很好!
只要我们团结!一起努力!
以下是引用土豆2008在2010-5-29 1:21:00的发言:
对于“永恒爱恋”和“渴望上进”,从言辞中可以看出,你们就是非临床专业不能考执业医师的受害者。在这我只能说很抱歉,我并没有去贬低你们或是说你们不好,就不如学临床的之类的意思。 本身我想说说我这几年对病理事业的看法,并不是想争论什么,没必要搞内部矛盾。 关起忙来自己做自己的。 在中国办事,很多时候都可以“曲线救国”,关于这个问题,我今天特意问了我们医院的医务科,找个熟人帮我问了卫生厅专门负责这件事的人(当然各省都不一样的),其实医院都无所谓,就是卫生厅那边审核不过关。那人说了,目前国家的执业医师只针对大学本科中学临床的,而检验没有学临床专业所以不能考,研究生学病理专业的,因为病理专业属于基础学科不是临床学科,没有学内外妇儿幼,所以也不行。后来我再通过其他人了解到办法有几个1、考临床博士,就一定能考执业医师,2、利用业余时间考个自学,成人或其他的临床专业课程,也能考执业医师3、去县或区一级医院,找个熟人,花点钱,套在该医院,因为这些医院审核没有那么严,大部分都能考的(我有几个朋友就是通过这方法) “永恒爱恋”和“渴望上进”二位朋友,我只不过想表达我的想法,无意冒犯。 |
为什么总拿内外妇儿说事,我已经不止一遍的说过了,我学过内外妇儿,而且不必西医院校学的少,用的是人卫六版的,和所有的西医院校一样,我去哈尔滨医科大学听过课,他们的临床可还没有我们学校讲得好呢,全是照着书年,我还有过一年多的临床实习,真不知道那点不如你们那些所谓的西医临床毕业的,我们只是想通过考试来证明一下自己,是骡子是马拉出来遛遛,不可以保证我们干到您这个年龄肯定不如你吗?不要一棒子把人打死,OK?顺便说一下我本科是在黑龙江中医药大学念的5年中医临床,我除了会西医临床还会中医!!!!
以下是引用土豆2008在2010-5-29 1:21:00的发言:
对于“永恒爱恋”和“渴望上进”,从言辞中可以看出,你们就是非临床专业不能考执业医师的受害者。在这我只能说很抱歉,我并没有去贬低你们或是说你们不好,就不如学临床的之类的意思。 本身我想说说我这几年对病理事业的看法,并不是想争论什么,没必要搞内部矛盾。 关起忙来自己做自己的。 在中国办事,很多时候都可以“曲线救国”,关于这个问题,我今天特意问了我们医院的医务科,找个熟人帮我问了卫生厅专门负责这件事的人(当然各省都不一样的),其实医院都无所谓,就是卫生厅那边审核不过关。那人说了,目前国家的执业医师只针对大学本科中学临床的,而检验没有学临床专业所以不能考,研究生学病理专业的,因为病理专业属于基础学科不是临床学科,没有学内外妇儿幼,所以也不行。后来我再通过其他人了解到办法有几个1、考临床博士,就一定能考执业医师,2、利用业余时间考个自学,成人或其他的临床专业课程,也能考执业医师3、去县或区一级医院,找个熟人,花点钱,套在该医院,因为这些医院审核没有那么严,大部分都能考的(我有几个朋友就是通过这方法) “永恒爱恋”和“渴望上进”二位朋友,我只不过想表达我的想法,无意冒犯。 为什么总拿内外妇儿说事,我已经不止一遍的说过了,我学过内外妇儿,而且不必西医院校学的少,用的是人卫六版的,和所有的西医院校一样,我去哈尔滨医科大学听过课,他们的临床可还没有我们学校讲得好呢,全是照着书年,我还有过一年多的临床实习,真不知道那点不如你们那些所谓的西医临床毕业的,我们只是想通过考试来证明一下自己,是骡子是马拉出来遛遛,不可以保证我们干到您这个年龄肯定不如你吗?不要一棒子把人打死,OK?顺便说一下我本科是在黑龙江中医药大学念的5年中医临床,我除了会西医临床还会中医!!!! |
表达清楚各方意见,是对的.网络交流跟现实中的交流仍有区别.一些原意不能完全表达,难免有所误解.现实中可以对说的一句话做无数句的附带说明,而网络交流,很多时侯就是一句话而缺乏无数句附带说明.
这一点,我们大家都要清楚与明了.比如,我跟掌心兄不是经常都在"吵"吗,还不是一样的兄弟?
土豆老师年龄较渴望上进朋友大一些......
渴望上进这一网名,已足以表达兄弟的困惑.
祝大家过得都好.
不得不说一下,有的人的言论明显有自我感觉的意思,没有调查就没有发言权。我首先表明一下自己的观点,
一:首先,这些学生们都是医学生,学过内外科等等医学科目,并不是没有临床知识。研究生入学考试里的西医综合,没有扎实的医学知识,难以通过入学考试,即使是连年扩招,分数线下降等等,不好好学习知识也不是很轻易就能通过的。
二:这部分学生是很有热情做病理工作的,要不也不会呼吁和争取,并不是说的被迫,等等。
三:现在的病理学研究生,很多都是一年理论,一年实验,一年病理科外检学习,有的甚至两年都在病理科学习。没有调查就没有发言权,你们的没有培训是不是想当然?这个可能只有你们自己知道。
四:高端病理学家是优中选优,这些学子们只是想争取入门的机会,这是争取!
五:我想说的是,任何的想当然的言论都是不可取的,甚至是很可笑的!
六:我想说这应该就是学科设置的问题,临床大专都能当病理医师,这些学子为什么不能?
七:一定要争取合理的建议,不能停留在口头上,我们在努力!
重视不重视,在于自己,自己去努力争取了,谁会不重视?毕竟病理是诊断肿瘤的唯一标准。最怕是那种不敢得罪领导的科主任,只想自己保身,不顾底下的死活,如果像把病理医生帮助技术员切片这样的病理科,我敢说这个病理科在医院一定没有地位!
再说说病理科的收入,现在很多医院的奖金都是一个百分比的系数,就像我刚才说我们医院的例子,系数都是靠科主任去争取回来的,你不去争取,医院是绝对不会给你很高的,只有自己去争取,医院才有可能给你的,就像俗话说的会哭的孩子有奶喝!还有就是当奖金拿回来后,分配制度的合理化,现在很多医院医生和技术员拿的是一样的奖金,这怎么合理?医生当然要体现医生的价值了。
说到底,一句话,地位和收入完全就是看你们的掌舵人去争取的。
各位病理老师的意见很是仁者见仁,智者见智.我不是病理的医生,我只是为各位老师提供产品的一个外行.我个人觉得这是一个社会性的问题,不仅仅是病理科这样.中国的现状依然无法摆脱一些封建思想因素的影响.中国人一向是要脸的,而不要自己的屁股.病理科,谁都知道是关键性的,基础性的科室,没有病理科一个医院的临床科室就很难做出正确的诊断,病人也就无法获得正确的治疗.而病人所能看到的只是某个临床科室的医生是怎么治好他们的,却不知道治好他们的关键是病理科的医生,我想更需要做的是让病人知道能够给他们提供准确诊断的是病理科的医生,而不是临床的医生,这是一个社会性的问题,需要的是医院领导和病理届的领导所应该做的,也需要各位病理科的工作者在日常的生活中为病人输入这样的意识.需要大家一起努力才能提高病理科的地位,也才能让领导能为大家做点事.提高大众的这种意识,我想才能从根本上解决病理科的问题.如果仅仅是靠病理届的领导,我想也仅仅是在口头上.不会起多么大的作用.水能载舟,亦能覆舟!