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为发展中国的病理事业, 为病理学科后继有人,Let’s work together!

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楼主 发表于 2010-05-27 08:17|举报|关注(0)
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标本名称: Major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China.
简要病史: In the past 30 years, China has transformed significantly and made outstanding achievement in many fields.  For example, China now has the best high-speed trains, best 5 star hotels, best shopping malls, and so on. That is all wonderful. But in the meantime, pathology services in China have not been improved portionally.
肉眼检查:  国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前.

 

诊断: 症结就在于 pathology as an important medical discipline is misclassified in China

 

 

I agree with many points made by  “不能考执业的病理研究生都来看看.  In fact, “病理研究生无法报考执医而从业” is only one of the major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China.  There are several other related issues and serious challenges.

 

 

I.   症结就在于 pathology is misclassified in ChinaIn most part of the world, including U.S.A, pathology service belongs to one of key clinical disciplines! But pathology diagnostic service in China is classified as “second class, auxiliary” clinical discipline. 

 

The inappropriate classification of pathology in clinical disciplines determines the social-economic status of pathology and pathologists.  As a result, the misclassification of pathology causes subsequently three key problems, among others:

 

(1)    The status of pathology service is not well respected by other “major” clinical services. 病理学科在疾病的诊断和治疗中的关键作用有目共睹. Pathology diagnosis is the gold standard! But in China, only when a malpractice happens, people (the CEOs, presidents of the hospitals) realize the importance of pathology. Otherwise, not much attention is paid to pathology. 病理科是不讨好的科室. Pathologists are just humble “grandchildren” in the hospital. 病理科 often time has  small work spaces, unfavorable locations, and very limited resource allocations of the hospital budget.

 

(2)    病理医生低收入. In USA, pathology is very competitive medical discipline, and pathologists in USA are paid reasonably well compared to other clinical disciplines! One of the main reasons is that the pathology diagnostic service fees in USA consist of “professional component (about 70%), and material/instrument component (about 30%)”. But in China, the services fees consist mainly of material/instrument component. We need to change this: pathologists in China need to get higher salaries!

 

(3)    Because of the above 1 and 2,  国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前. A lot of young students with interest and knowledge of pathology are ending up doing something else!

 

I have visited more than 80 Chinese hospitals/university medical centers since I practiced pathology in U.S.A in 1999. There are significant shortages of good dedicated pathologists in China. Many places re-hired retired pathologists/professors since talent young medical students want to do other medical disciplines rather than pathology because the above problems. As a matter of fact, the situation was not the same when I was studying pathology in China in early 1980. At that time,  pathology service was still considered as a clinical discipline as other major medical disciplines and many dedicated medical graduates chose pathology as a career.

 

 

II.  In summary,  new policy should be considered to address problems of pathology in China.  New policy should be discussed, planned, tested, and implemented based on three major aspects, namely professional input, international standards, and the demands from the society!!

 

(1). Professional input, as stated in the above, is already very clear.

 

(2). International standards are also easy to check via web, international pathology organizations, and international pathologists including myself.

 

(3). The demands from the society, from the patients, are very high. China has transformed significantly during the past 30 years.  For example, China now has the best 5 star hotels, best high-speed trains, and best shopping malls. That is wonderful. But pathology services have not been improved during the same period of time. In fact, they are becoming worse.  China, and Chinese people need the best pathologists!! Chinese patients need to enjoy the best quality of pathology diagnosis services!!

 

III. We need to work together to solve the problems. Each and everyone of the pathology community have the responsibility and duty to respond to the problems. We need every 病理医生积极主动参与的热情. The following are major suggestions:

            (1). To mobilize all national and local pathology organizations. It is very important to act as a massive group, with a stronger voice! To mobilize the media: newspapers, websites, radio and TV stations. Huaxia Pathology website is a very useful platform. To unite organizations of other medical disciplines, which are relied on pathology services.

 

            (2) To address the issues one by one directly: namely RECLASSIFY PATHOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC SERVICE AS A MAJOR CLINICAL MEDICAL DISCIPLINE!! SO IT WILL promote the social-economic status of pathology service and pathologists among the professional field of medicine.

 

            By doing this, the whole landscape of pathology will change: more and more people will do pathology, more and more resources will be allocated to pathology services and pathology research. The final mission of medicine, serving the patients well, will be accomplished. However, these all need the involvement of pathology organizations and every pathologist. Everyone can make a contribution to this effort.

            To address the problem of 病理研究生无法报考从业,  it also needs to 制定一个严格的完善的准入、管理体系, 准许病理研究生直接参加医师考试. But 病理研究生 still needs to be trained for additional years before being allowed to sign out pathology diagnosis report.

 

             

发展国的病理事业, 病理有人Let’s work together

 

I certainly will try my best to contribute to this long-term project.

 

谈东风   May 27, 2010 from Houston.

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水中鱼儿 离线

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161 楼    发表于2010-05-27 21:47:00举报|引用
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 谈教授的中国病理现状剖析深刻。病理科和病理医生确实在很多医院(特别是基层)地位很低,收入也很
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zorrokp 离线

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162 楼    发表于2010-05-27 21:43:00举报|引用
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 华夏病理网真的很不错!特别是对基层的病理医生来说真的是个很好的学习平台!

网络课堂很不错!各个系统的论坛也相当不错!!

真心的感谢各位前辈大师们特地抽出时间给我们上课!!!

收益匪浅!

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zorrokp 离线

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163 楼    发表于2010-05-27 21:37:00举报|引用
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以下是引用zdh8021在2010-5-27 18:45:00的发言:

 感谢谈老师!!说出了病理人的心声。

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lantian0508 离线

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164 楼    发表于2010-05-27 21:35:00举报|引用
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 谢谢谈教授说出了国内病理人的症结及心声!哪如何让当权着知晓、改变当前的困境呢!
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fhr831 离线

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165 楼    发表于2010-05-27 21:35:00举报|引用
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 病理科被认为是辅助科室,重要性医院还没有认识到。
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永恒爱恋 离线

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166 楼    发表于2010-05-27 20:43:00举报|引用
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将病理进行到底,大家加油,各位老师们多多支持哦

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只要你的脚还在地面上,就别把自己看得太轻;只要你还生活在地球上,就别把自己看得太大

晓明 离线

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167 楼    发表于2010-05-27 20:35:00举报|引用
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 需要努力,实际行动才更重要。
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典型中看不典型,不典型中找典型。

SOS991229 离线

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168 楼    发表于2010-05-27 20:16:00举报|引用
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 顶!!感谢谈教授的理解和心急如焚,更是感谢谈教授的策略。

大家不妨试试,努力和领导沟通,会有转机的。我就在努力这样做!!

实际上大家越来越发现,我们比临床医生能力强些,所以病理医师是值钱的。我们在继承传统的时候要有创新!!不要总结省,不舍得投入!!要知道有舍必有得!!

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abin 离线

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169 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:38:00举报|引用
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昨天看报,某领导谈到新医改“医务人员的关键作用”,要求他们“发挥积极性和创造性”,“加强医德医风建设”,而不是调动他们的积极性。

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华夏病理/粉蓝医疗

为基层医院病理科提供全面解决方案,

努力让人人享有便捷准确可靠的病理诊断服务。


渴望上进 离线

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170 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:34:00举报|引用
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年轻医生应该提高自己的业务水平是必须地。国外病理发展比国内好很多,这是现实,期望多学习经验,希望病理学科能快速健康地发展

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cqzhao 离线

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171 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:22:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2010-05-27 19:23:00 编辑  这是一个医生培养体系,价值观念,和历史传统的问题。呼吁社会和政府观注是应该的。但是年轻病理医生也应该提高自身的病理业务水平。
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珠江人家 离线

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172 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:21:00举报|引用
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       谈博士此文本人看后很受感动,亦对海外的病理同行能如此关心国内同行甚为敬仰。

       但谈博士可能久居美国,不了解中国现在的国情,没有就中国的现状,剖析中国的病理人才越来越少关键。中国现在是一个急功近利的市场,包括每个人择业到就业阶段,是经济,不是兴趣。医院老板是院长,换一个角度,如果你是老板,你会给一个不赚钱的部门高报酬吗,绝对不会!老板只会给赚钱的部门高收入!你何时见过医院对外宣传医院病理科的诊断水平是如何的高超,如何有保证,他只会宣传老百姓崇拜的所谓的临床医生,因为他们能从病人身上赚钱。

      病理从业人员,尤其是医生,要想获得高报酬,在现今的中国,必须把现有的病理收费,包括活检、细胞和尸体解剖总体收费提高5到10倍,才有可能提高病理科在医院收入重要性,从而提高各位同仁的地位,提高病理在中国医学界的位置!扩大病理科的地盘,改善病理窘迫的工作环境。可悲的是,我们没能在新出台的病理试行方案中看到任何这方面苗头,方案认为病理科重要,为何不提高病理的收费,嘴巴能留住人才吗,否!

      不从现今经济天平上进行调节,想改善中国大部分医院病理在医院中的地位,那只是一纸空文!恶性循环,人才流失!

       愿国内外同行携手合作,共同改变现状!

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渴望上进 离线

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173 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:17:00举报|引用
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 不能没有改善的迹象,我们就不去争取,不到最后都不应该不能够放弃争取的斗志。。。
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abin 离线

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174 楼    发表于2010-05-27 19:07:00举报|引用
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国内病理的地位和收入没有改善的迹象。不知道大家还能忍受多久?既然现状无法改变,就适应社会发展吧。如果有机会,我就改行,到公司去打工。

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华夏病理/粉蓝医疗

为基层医院病理科提供全面解决方案,

努力让人人享有便捷准确可靠的病理诊断服务。


小荷 离线

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175 楼    发表于2010-05-27 18:56:00举报|引用
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感谢谈老师,身在海外心系祖国!

我会将各位专家和网友的意见转发给病理高管

只有想不到,没有做不到!关键是我们病理人要上下齐心,才能有望改变现状。

要相信并坚信病理人的未来一定会很美好。

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没有完美的个人,只有完美的团队

永恒爱恋 离线

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176 楼    发表于2010-05-27 18:51:00举报|引用
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 感谢谈老师的支持,咱们病理人的未来需要大家一同来开创,加油!
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只要你的脚还在地面上,就别把自己看得太轻;只要你还生活在地球上,就别把自己看得太大

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177 楼    发表于2010-05-27 18:45:00举报|引用
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 感谢谈老师!!说出了病理人的心声。

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lilily 离线

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178 楼    发表于2010-05-27 15:09:00举报|引用
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 希望中国的病理人,能有出头的一天。好好工作,好好学习,时刻准备着!!!!
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渴望上进 离线

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179 楼    发表于2010-05-27 14:45:00举报|引用
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基层病理科太需要有热情有知识的病理学生了,强烈建议变更病理学科设置,强烈建议准许病理研究生直接参加医师考试,并于适当的培训,让有志学子补充到病理队伍中去,这样病理学科才有希望人才济济.蓬勃发展。倘若病理硕士博士毕业证不能作为行业入门的依据,其价值还会高吗?想学的人还会多吗?

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180 楼    发表于2010-05-27 14:32:00举报|引用
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 谈老师的观点很有深度!
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