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为发展中国的病理事业, 为病理学科后继有人,Let’s work together!

谈东风 离线

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楼主 发表于 2010-05-27 08:17|举报|关注(0)
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标本名称: Major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China.
简要病史: In the past 30 years, China has transformed significantly and made outstanding achievement in many fields.  For example, China now has the best high-speed trains, best 5 star hotels, best shopping malls, and so on. That is all wonderful. But in the meantime, pathology services in China have not been improved portionally.
肉眼检查:  国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前.

 

诊断: 症结就在于 pathology as an important medical discipline is misclassified in China

 

 

I agree with many points made by  “不能考执业的病理研究生都来看看.  In fact, “病理研究生无法报考执医而从业” is only one of the major challenges facing pathology and pathologists in China.  There are several other related issues and serious challenges.

 

 

I.   症结就在于 pathology is misclassified in ChinaIn most part of the world, including U.S.A, pathology service belongs to one of key clinical disciplines! But pathology diagnostic service in China is classified as “second class, auxiliary” clinical discipline. 

 

The inappropriate classification of pathology in clinical disciplines determines the social-economic status of pathology and pathologists.  As a result, the misclassification of pathology causes subsequently three key problems, among others:

 

(1)    The status of pathology service is not well respected by other “major” clinical services. 病理学科在疾病的诊断和治疗中的关键作用有目共睹. Pathology diagnosis is the gold standard! But in China, only when a malpractice happens, people (the CEOs, presidents of the hospitals) realize the importance of pathology. Otherwise, not much attention is paid to pathology. 病理科是不讨好的科室. Pathologists are just humble “grandchildren” in the hospital. 病理科 often time has  small work spaces, unfavorable locations, and very limited resource allocations of the hospital budget.

 

(2)    病理医生低收入. In USA, pathology is very competitive medical discipline, and pathologists in USA are paid reasonably well compared to other clinical disciplines! One of the main reasons is that the pathology diagnostic service fees in USA consist of “professional component (about 70%), and material/instrument component (about 30%)”. But in China, the services fees consist mainly of material/instrument component. We need to change this: pathologists in China need to get higher salaries!

 

(3)    Because of the above 1 and 2,  国病理人才越来越少,病理学科的发展停滞不前. A lot of young students with interest and knowledge of pathology are ending up doing something else!

 

I have visited more than 80 Chinese hospitals/university medical centers since I practiced pathology in U.S.A in 1999. There are significant shortages of good dedicated pathologists in China. Many places re-hired retired pathologists/professors since talent young medical students want to do other medical disciplines rather than pathology because the above problems. As a matter of fact, the situation was not the same when I was studying pathology in China in early 1980. At that time,  pathology service was still considered as a clinical discipline as other major medical disciplines and many dedicated medical graduates chose pathology as a career.

 

 

II.  In summary,  new policy should be considered to address problems of pathology in China.  New policy should be discussed, planned, tested, and implemented based on three major aspects, namely professional input, international standards, and the demands from the society!!

 

(1). Professional input, as stated in the above, is already very clear.

 

(2). International standards are also easy to check via web, international pathology organizations, and international pathologists including myself.

 

(3). The demands from the society, from the patients, are very high. China has transformed significantly during the past 30 years.  For example, China now has the best 5 star hotels, best high-speed trains, and best shopping malls. That is wonderful. But pathology services have not been improved during the same period of time. In fact, they are becoming worse.  China, and Chinese people need the best pathologists!! Chinese patients need to enjoy the best quality of pathology diagnosis services!!

 

III. We need to work together to solve the problems. Each and everyone of the pathology community have the responsibility and duty to respond to the problems. We need every 病理医生积极主动参与的热情. The following are major suggestions:

            (1). To mobilize all national and local pathology organizations. It is very important to act as a massive group, with a stronger voice! To mobilize the media: newspapers, websites, radio and TV stations. Huaxia Pathology website is a very useful platform. To unite organizations of other medical disciplines, which are relied on pathology services.

 

            (2) To address the issues one by one directly: namely RECLASSIFY PATHOLOGY DIAGNOSTIC SERVICE AS A MAJOR CLINICAL MEDICAL DISCIPLINE!! SO IT WILL promote the social-economic status of pathology service and pathologists among the professional field of medicine.

 

            By doing this, the whole landscape of pathology will change: more and more people will do pathology, more and more resources will be allocated to pathology services and pathology research. The final mission of medicine, serving the patients well, will be accomplished. However, these all need the involvement of pathology organizations and every pathologist. Everyone can make a contribution to this effort.

            To address the problem of 病理研究生无法报考从业,  it also needs to 制定一个严格的完善的准入、管理体系, 准许病理研究生直接参加医师考试. But 病理研究生 still needs to be trained for additional years before being allowed to sign out pathology diagnosis report.

 

             

发展国的病理事业, 病理有人Let’s work together

 

I certainly will try my best to contribute to this long-term project.

 

谈东风   May 27, 2010 from Houston.

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渴望上进 离线

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141 楼    发表于2010-08-01 10:46:00举报|引用
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 知识是无穷尽的,追求应当永不停息!!
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渴望上进 离线

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142 楼    发表于2010-08-01 12:04:00举报|引用
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 再看谈老师的帖子和倡议,感触仍然很深,使病理学科成为真正的临床学科,任重而道远,病理学会的专家们,你们在做些什么,这里有很多的问号,很难吗?有多难?有希望吗?努力了吗?有多努力?
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Jacob 离线

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143 楼    发表于2010-08-01 22:24:00举报|引用
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 中国的好多部门总是在家坐着喝茶、看报,等着屋顶漏雨才去修屋顶;堤坝跨了,大水冲进来才去修堤坝;毒面粉,毒大米、毒奶粉涌入市场,才去马不停蹄的去查,。。。。。。总喜欢做事后诸葛亮!

 中国对事物的认识总是比人家慢半步,病理学科的发展壮大,病理医生的地位与收入的改善,不知道何年何月?

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天道酬勤!

djdnx 离线

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梦回清河 离线

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145 楼    发表于2010-08-24 11:45:00举报|引用
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呵呵,努力吧

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梦回清河 离线

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146 楼    发表于2010-08-24 11:46:00举报|引用
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 哎,努力吧
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靖哥哥 离线

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147 楼    发表于2010-08-30 23:08:00举报|引用
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 本人有一奇特想法:让医学生的病理教学通过率在2%以下,这样或许20年后,中国医院的院长们知道病理不好搞,那时可能病理的处境好一点!嘿嘿,开个玩笑!
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珠江人家 离线

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148 楼    发表于2010-09-02 11:35:00举报|引用
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现在的学生都很聪明,考试只重视以后有用的,如果不考研,他们可以不学病理。

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xclbljys 离线

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149 楼    发表于2010-09-05 23:34:00举报|引用
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 不能让已经毕业的病理研究生转行!

鲁迅早年学医,却成为大文豪!

毛泽东没有上过军事院校,成为举世罕见的大军事家!

大学教育,不在于掌握多少专业知识,更重要的是驾驭知识的能力!

既然向学子们开了读病理研究生之门,就应该向他们敞开病理科的大门!这样简单的道理,根本不需要讨论!

今后的改革,是今后的事,管理层酿的苦果,应该自己消化!而不应该让学子们吞下!

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美人鱼 离线

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150 楼    发表于2010-09-06 19:29:00举报|引用
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 大家努力吧,改变这种现状,太不合理了!
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永恒爱恋 离线

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151 楼    发表于2010-09-06 21:05:00举报|引用
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说的太好了,凭什么让我们这些无辜的学子去承担国家政策上的漏洞!

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只要你的脚还在地面上,就别把自己看得太轻;只要你还生活在地球上,就别把自己看得太大

渴望上进 离线

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152 楼    发表于2010-09-06 21:15:00举报|引用
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不在沉默中爆发,就在沉默中死亡。

战士当为了理想和追求而浴血奋战!

质疑和讥笑我们可以忍耐,但是上进的心当永不停息!

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lesley 离线

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153 楼    发表于2010-09-06 21:42:00举报|引用
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    老师说的太好了。

    学科的发展,必须配合制度的完善。希望有关部门能重视起来,给有着志愿为病理行业服务的学子一个机会,给病理专业在中国的发展提供更好的条件。

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skygirl7 离线

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154 楼    发表于2010-09-06 21:44:00举报|引用
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 大家一起努力,还是有希望的,加油!
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thinksoul 离线

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155 楼    发表于2010-09-17 11:25:00举报|引用
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以下是引用ping117在2010-5-27 10:37:00的发言:

 病理人需要提高待遇,首先需要让医院领导、卫生部门的领导、国家领导的重视。靠什么啊?依靠全国病理同仁团结的运动,为争取我们合法权益的有组织的运动。比如全国的病理人一起罢工一周,一个月,医院会重视,卫生部会重视,国家领导人会重视的。不在沉默中消失,就在沉默中爆发!

貌似最近有个省的附属医院病理科罢工了,可又能怎样?没人声援呀!最后下场会很悲惨!你以为在美国么?
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渴望上进 离线

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156 楼    发表于2010-09-18 18:25:00举报|引用
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不能因为困难重重而不去争取,凡事都应该考虑积极的一面,凡事如果认定了,就应该努力的去做。变化才是永恒的。

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珠江人家 离线

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157 楼    发表于2010-10-13 22:43:00举报|引用
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以下是引用渴望上进在2010-9-18 18:25:00的发言:

不能因为困难重重而不去争取,凡事都应该考虑积极的一面,凡事如果认定了,就应该努力的去做。变化才是永恒的。

同意,要提高病理人的待遇,实现良性循环!
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路过蜻蜓 离线

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158 楼    发表于2010-10-13 23:33:00举报|引用
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最重要的是提高病理医生的待遇,实在太低了,连普通的护士都不如,领那么一点米米,实在没得尊严

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一天一点小进步!

周宝宝 离线

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159 楼    发表于2010-10-15 15:42:00举报|引用
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 从第一页看到第十一页,感慨真的很多。

的确,我们做病理的,搞风险,低收入。

还要时时刻刻担心“秋后算账”。几年甚至十几年后也有可能有人找你说诊断错误打官司的。

精神以及心理压力都非常大,虽然不上夜班,但是白天如果有倾向恶性的片子,夜里有几个是能不想这个睡的很香很甜的呢?

我刚毕业参加工作,目前只能做一些基础的技术工作,还远远没达到能发诊断报告的地步。但是看了这些,真的情况就跟我们科的前辈们跟我说过的 情况一样。

很多地方我都不懂,不发表什么观点,我只希望自己能努力,早日成长为一个合格的病理医生。同时也小小的希望一下国家能提高我们病理人的待遇。我们每天面对甲醛二甲苯的危害,甚至为了减少消耗病理防护服取材服都没有。我们的付出和收入的确不成正比。

不要再让人才流失了。

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友直,友谅,友多闻,益矣。 友便僻,友柔善,友便佞,损矣

jp1111 离线

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160 楼    发表于2010-10-22 10:29:00举报|引用
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 我是病理科的教授,今年要招一名直博生,已面试了一位很好的具有免试资格的学生,我们专业面试小组一致通过同意,但研管部门通知我不得录取她为病理直博生,一是病理学科是基础医学科室,不得招收专业学位型(也是临床学位型)学生,只能招收学术学位型;而该生从她们学校拿到的免推信指定是专业学位型;二是专业学位型的面试生不得读直博生;我真不知道国家制定政策的依据来自何方??
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