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let us have a discussion: 宫颈液基 vs 传统刮片

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楼主 发表于 2009-03-07 23:03|举报|关注(0)
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Recently I noticed some topics related liquid based cytology (LBC) and conventional Pap smears (CP) in this website. We know that the price of LBC is higher than CP.

Hope we can discuss the disadvantage and advantage of both methods.

What methods are used in your hospitals?

What method you think should be used in China now or future?

Also I will find some data to let you know the main methods used in other main countries. As of May 1, 2008, the United Nations has 192 members. In China we mention 国外, which include more than 190 contries.

Thanks

cz

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1 楼    发表于2009-06-05 10:55:00举报|引用
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 Agree with Dr. byq.
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2 楼    发表于2009-05-19 10:11:00举报|引用
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 In the US the amount of pathology service fee paid by insurance companies or medicaid or medicare is much less than that pathology required.

Pathology code for LBC and HC2 HPV test: about  $100

But the true money for a Pap test

Reimbursement for Pap

CMS (Center for Medicare & Medicaid Service) National Limitation Amount (Medicare)

Conventional                                                                            Liquid-Based

88164        $14.76                                                                       88142   $28.31

88147        $15.90                                                                       88174   $29.85

88148        $21.23                                                                       88175   $37.01

You can see it is very cheaper for a Pap test in the US. This is why many pathology departments do not  like to do the Pap tests. However at least the price for LBC is two times of conventional Pap. 

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3 楼    发表于2009-04-20 12:45:00举报|引用
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 Dear  法师 : Thank you very much. I appreciate your work attitude. Your summary is very good. From your table I can know that you spent a lot of your time and considered the issue very carefully.

Generally speaking LBC is more sensitive and specific for the detection of SIL and glandular lesions, and easy to read. However conventional pap tests can get good results if the slides are prepared well.

From floor 81, Australia, New zealand, and some 北欧 countries still use CP.

城北 mentioned in other topic:

普通的PAP 30元 vs. TCT 180元
I am suprised to know the huge difference of the price. Maybe CP can be used for screening in some poor areas in China.
Welcome more people share your oppinion.
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4 楼    发表于2009-04-11 19:49:00举报|引用
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 To   法师 

Could you give a summary to compaare the advantage and disadventage of conventional smear and liquid based Pap test. in term of senstivity, specificity, difficulty or easy to read, price, cost effect, HPV test, automation, et al...

You can make a list

Thanks,

cz

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5 楼    发表于2009-04-11 19:49:00举报|引用
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以下是引用掌心0164在2009-3-26 17:25:00的发言:

 谢谢赵老师,也谢谢Austin博士Keene先生数据和信息;这些对我们有很大的帮助;如果有机会请赵老师请您这些朋友给我们这些人讲讲课那就更好了。呵呵!(我是不是很贪婪?)

I can try.
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6 楼    发表于2009-03-24 20:42:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-25 07:38:00 编辑

 Ok. I showed you a lot of studies about comparsion between LBC and conventional Pap. Also I pasted current marketing about these two methods in the USA and some other countries.

Just let you know  more information outside of China. If you read all papers and you will know which method is better and know why.

Thank all of you for the review and discuss of this topic. Especially thank   兰青风采 or 掌心0164 for your translation.

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7 楼    发表于2009-03-24 20:37:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-26 17:27:00 编辑

 Dr. Austin asked his friend Jeff Keene to get the information.

(Austin博士从他的朋友Jeff Keene哪里获得的信息。) 

Mr. Keene is Director of Global Communications, Hologic/Cytyc Corp (compay to make ThinPrep Pap Test, TPPT). This information is a business issue to a company. So I think the data are relatively accurate. The company has not information in China. I do not know it is good or bad.  (Keene先生是赛迪(Hologic/Cytyc Corp )公司全球联络部主任,这是一公司的商业信息。所以我认为这些数据是比较准确的。但是这个公司没有关于中国的信息,我不知道是好还是坏。)

 UK and Ireland 100% LBC, 67% TPPT, 33% SP

 (英国和爱尔兰100%液基细胞学,67% TPPT, 33% SP)

Benelux 60% LBC, 55% TPPT, rest mainly SP 

(Benelux 60%液基细胞学,55%TPPT,余下主要是SP) 

Suisse 75% LBC, 60% TPPT, rest mainly SP 

 (瑞士75%液基细胞学,60% TPPT,余下主要是SP)

German 10% LBC, 60% TPPT 

 (德国10%液基细胞学,60%TPPT)

Nordic 15% LBC, 80% TPPT

(北欧15%液基细胞学,80%TPPT) 

Australia: 100% Conventional with 25 % of women paying for an additional TPPT

 (澳大利亚100%传统涂片和25%自费加做TPPT)

NZ- 60% conventional 25 % TPPT and 15% other LBC

(新西兰60%传统涂片、25%TPPT和15%的其他液基细胞学) 

For China we do not have what we would consider reliable market share data.

 (对于中国,我们没有可靠的市场份额数据。)

Hope this helps

 (希望这些有帮助)

Jeff Keene, Director Global Communications and Payer Relations,Hologic/Cytyc Corp

Jeff Keene是赛迪公司全球联络部主任和付款联系人

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8 楼    发表于2009-03-24 20:16:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-26 22:10:00 编辑

 I asked my best American friend Dr. Austin to get some information about LBC and convention Pap ratio in different countries.   I would like to introduce him in our web after I got his permission. He loves Chinese. I told him the story about our web.(我从我最好的美国朋友Austin博士哪里得到了一些关于不同国家使用液基细胞学和传统涂片比例的信息。得到他许可后我很高兴地在我们网站上介绍他。他喜欢中国人。我告诉过他关于我们网站的事情。) 

Dr. R. Mashall Austin is Professor of Pathology and Director of Cytopathology ar Magee-Womens Hospital, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Dr. Austin is a 1977 graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine Medical Scientist Training Program (MD, PhD) where he earned his PhD in virology. He received subspecialty training in Gynecologic and Breast pathology and Cytopathology at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) from 1983-1986.(R. Mashall Austin博士是匹兹堡大学医学中心Magee妇产医院病理学教授和细胞病理学主任。Austin博士于1977年毕业于杜克大学医学院,获得医学博士学位(MD), 并获得病毒学哲学博士学位(PhD)。1983-1986年,他在武装部队病理学研究所接受了妇科、乳腺病理学和细胞病理学专科训练

Dr. Austin is an active researcher, author, lecturer. His current areas of research interest focus on cervical cancer screening, risk managment, new technology, and public and professional educatin in cervical cancer screening. He is international well-recognized gynecologic cytopathologist. Dr. Austin is a leading medical ligal consultant in cases involving cytology litigation in the USA. He is a past President (2004-2005) of the American Society of Cytopathology (ASC) and served as Advisor to the Cytopathology resource Committee of the College of American Patholofists (CAP). Dr. Austin has served as section editor and on the editoral boards of numerous publications, among the Archives of Pathology and Laboratory Medcine, Diagnostic Cytopathology, Cancer Cytopathology, Acta Cytologic, and CytoJournal. (Austin博士是一位优秀的研究人员、作者和讲师。他目前的研究兴趣主要集中在宫颈癌筛查中的宫颈癌筛查、风险管理、新技术和公众及专业人员的教育等方面。他是国际公认的妇科细胞病理学家。Austin博士是美国的细胞学医疗事故的医学法律顾问领导组成员。他是美国细胞病理学会前任主席(2004-2005)和担任美国病理学家大学委员会细胞病理分会的顾问。Austin博士一直担任着许多出版物的主编和编辑,其中有《病理学档案和实验室医学》、《诊断细胞病理学》、《肿瘤细胞病理学》、《兽类细胞学》和《细胞杂志》。)

 


名称:图1
描述:图1
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9 楼    发表于2009-03-22 12:20:00举报|引用
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 Good point. Hope you can always be yourself.

原来的“兰青风采”有被人误认性别的嫌疑. It is true that i always assume you were a young girl.

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10 楼    发表于2009-03-21 20:40:00举报|引用
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 To   掌心0164:

Thank you very much for your excellent translation.

Can u tell us why you change your user name if it is not a secret? You do not need to answer.

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11 楼    发表于2009-03-21 09:28:00举报|引用
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 This week I am in service of Pap tests. Totally I have 290 cases with abnormal Paps including ASCUS above, reactive, bacteria, endometrial cells et al. 160 of these cases have high risk HPV tests. HPV tests are ordered based on ASC-US, ASC-H, or women >30 years, or HPV testing regardless. I just want you know the duty we have here.  I do not know how many Paps your people will read per day or per week. Only 2 /290 Paps were conventional Paps. Each conventional Pap needs two smears based on our rule. Tell you the truth I am really tired of the conventional Pap.
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12 楼    发表于2009-03-20 23:03:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-25 07:36:00 编辑

 In the US Thin Prep Pap tests from Cytyc account for70-75% of the marketing; SurePath (BD)accounts 20-25%, others for 5%. 

http://www.cytyc.com/international/international.shtml

http://www.bd.com/tripath/

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13 楼    发表于2009-03-20 09:08:00举报|引用
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 Good plan. Do you want to organize the project?
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14 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:44:00举报|引用
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 I did a brief literature search on comparision of conventional smear and liquid based cytology. I picked the main studies and paste here. The abstracts are listed from current to before. These studies were from many different countries, developed, developing ones. I saw some studies from Hong Kong. When we evaluate a method for screening test, we need to consider sensitivity, specificity, positive predict value and negative predict value. Of cause more factors including easy and simple to perform, unsatisfactory rate, cost effect et al need to be considered also.

I just hope we Chinese pathologists know the fact or the truth in this area even though we may not be able to do LBC now due to current conditions in some hospitals or areas. The best way to know some topics is to read the original papers.

I will appreciate it if some ones can translate the conclusion parts in each abstracts I highlight.

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15 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:32:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:58:00 编辑  Praxis (Bern 1994). 1998 Oct 21;87(43):1434-40.

[Comparison of conventional PAP smears with thin layer specimen (liquid-based PAP test) and correlation with cytopathological findings with HPV status using the hybrid capture system]

[Article in German]

Spital Pflegi-Neumünster, Zürich.

Cervical smears of 554 outpatients of a hospital were examined using a blinded, split sample match pair protocol for which a conventional PAP-smear (CS) was first prepared with Cervex brush and the reminder of the sample was used for the thin-layer-preparation (TLP) according to the manual CytoRich System. The preparations of the two methods were compared with respect to quality and to sensitivity for atypias. In addition the HPV status was determined on the same cell suspension in cases with borderline changes (BLC) and dysplasias including carcinoma using the Hybrid Capture System. The use of TLP reduced the proportion of suboptimal preparations by more than 50% (14.6% vs. 35%) and eliminated the only inadequate preparation registered in CS. The DSP detected more than twice as many dysplasias of all degrees as CS (3.4% vs. 1.4%) and reduced the proportion of BLC to one third (3.2% vs. 9.6%). The percentages of cases positive for high- and intermediate-risk HPV in preparations with BLC, LSIL and HSIL were 17, 62.5% and 100% respectively. The TL-method improves significantly the efficiency of PAP-smears and allows the typing of HPV which is of clinical importance for the management of low grade squamous intraepitelial lesions and borderline changes. The findings speak against the further use of CS for cervical screening.

这种薄层方法比传统巴氏涂片大大提高了效率和通过HPV的分型对LSIL和交界性改变进行重要的临床管理。这个结果表明反对进一步的用传统巴氏涂片进行宫颈癌筛查。

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16 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:30:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:46:00 编辑   Cancer. 1999 Apr 25;87(2):48-55.
Comment in:
Cancer. 2000 Feb 25;90(1):67-9.

Utility of liquid-based cytology for cervical carcinoma screening: results of a population-based study conducted in a region of Costa Rica with a high incidence of cervical carcinoma.

Women & Infants Hospital, Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island 02905-2401, USA.

BACKGROUND: In a study using a split-sample design, liquid-based cytology (ThinPrep Processor, Cytyc Corporation, Boxborough, MA) was compared with the conventional Papanicolaou (Pap) smear in Guanacaste, Costa Rica. The study provides the first population-based comparison of the ThinPrep screening technology and includes "gold standard" measures of diagnostic accuracy. METHODS: The population-based study was performed among over 8000 women residing in a Costa Rican province with a high incidence of cervical carcinoma. Conventional smears were prepared and diagnosed in Costa Rica, while the residual material on the sampling device was collected into a liquid preservative and shipped to the U.S., where ThinPrep cytologic slides were prepared and diagnosed. Cytologic diagnoses based on the two techniques, categorized according to the Bethesda System, were compared with a "gold standard" final case diagnosis for each patient, also based on Bethesda terminology, that reflected an integrated interpretation of all available data, including cytology, histology, and cervicography. Results were also compared with the results of HPV DNA detection (Hybrid Capture, Digene Corporation, Silver Spring, MD). RESULTS: ASCUS was the threshold for colposcopy referral. There were significantly more women referred according to this threshold with the ThinPrep slide (12.7%) than with the conventional smear (6.7%, P<0.001). Compared with the final case diagnosis, referral by ThinPrep slides detected 92.9% of cases with high grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (HSIL) and 100% of carcinoma cases. Smears detected 77.8% of HSIL and 90.9% of carcinomas. Thus, ThinPrep cytology was significantly more sensitive in the detection of HSIL and cancer (McNemar test, P<0.001). Adjudication of cases in which the ThinPrep and smear diagnoses disagreed, using the final case diagnoses and the HPV DNA test results as reference standards, suggested that the ThinPrep method was detecting additional true SIL as opposed to false-positives. CONCLUSIONS: In a population-based study of high risk women, ThinPrep cytology demonstrated significantly increased sensitivity for detecting HSIL and carcinoma, with a concurrent significant increase in colposcopy referrals.

结论:在一个人口为基础的高风险妇女的研究中表明ThinPrep细胞学显著提高检测HSIL和癌的敏感性,同时大大增加了阴道镜的推广。

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17 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:29:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:31:00 编辑   Br J Cancer. 2001 Feb 2;84(3):360-6.

Liquid-based cytology for primary cervical cancer screening: a multi-centre study.

Institut Alfred Fournier, 25 boulevard Saint Jacques, Paris, 75014, France.

The aim of this six-centre, split-sample study was to compare ThinPrep fluid-based cytology to the conventional Papanicolaou smear. Six cytopathology laboratories and 35 gynaecologists participated. 5428 patients met the inclusion criteria (age > 18 years old, intact cervix, informed consent). Each cervical sample was used first to prepare a conventional Pap smear, then the sampling device was rinsed into a PreservCyt vial, and a ThinPrep slide was made. Screening of slide pairs was blinded (n = 5428). All non-negative concordant cases (n = 101), all non-concordant cases (n = 206), and a 5% random sample of concordant negative cases (n = 272) underwent review by one independent pathologist then by the panel of 6 investigators. Initial (blinded) screening results for ThinPrep and conventional smears were correlated. Initial diagnoses were correlated with consensus cytological diagnoses. Differences in disease detection were evaluated using McNemar's test. On initial screening, 29% more ASCUS cases and 39% more low-grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (LSIL) and more severe lesions (LSIL+) were detected on the ThinPrep slides than on the conventional smears (P = 0.001), including 50% more LSIL and 18% more high-grade SIL (HSIL). The ASCUS:SIL ratio was lower for the ThinPrep method (115:132 = 0.87:1) than for the conventional smear method (89:94 = 0.95:1). The same trend was observed for the ASCUS/AGUS:LSIL ratio. Independent and consensus review confirmed 145 LSIL+ diagnoses; of these, 18% more had been detected initially on the ThinPrep slides than on the conventional smears (P = 0.041). The ThinPrep Pap Test is more accurate than the conventional Pap test and has the potential to optimize the effectiveness of primary cervical cancer screening.

ThinPrep实验是比传统巴氏实验更准确和具有做为初次宫颈癌筛查的潜在的高效率。

 

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18 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:28:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:22:00 编辑   Acta Cytol. 2001 Sep-Oct;45(5):709-14.

Does liquid-based technology really improve detection of cervical neoplasia? A prospective, randomized trial comparing the ThinPrep Pap Test with the conventional Pap Test, including follow-up of HSIL cases.

Cytology Laboratory of Jörg H. Obwegeser, Zurich, Switzerland. zylabob@swissonline.ch

OBJECTIVE: To compare the sensitivity, specificity and specimen adequacy of the ThinPrep Pap Test (TP) with the conventional Pap Test (CV) in a low-risk population with subsequent follow-up of HSIL cases. STUDY DESIGN: A prospective, randomized, controlled design was chosen to compare the TP with CV. Cytologic diagnosis and specimen adequacy were evaluated and compared with histology data in high grade squamous intraepithelial lesion (HSIL) cases. Fifteen gynecologists in private practice, all trained in colposcopy, participated in the trial. Cytologic diagnosis, specimen adequacy and follow-up of the cytologic HSIL cases were compared in the two groups. In total, 1,999 patients were included, 997 in the TP group and 1,002 in the CV group. Randomization assignments were designated on cytology case report forms, which were placed in sealed envelopes. Each envelope had a sequential randomization number on the outside to allow tracking and authentication of randomization assignments. RESULTS: Comparison of results between CVs and TPs revealed no statistically significant differences in all diagnostic categories, ranging from "within normal limits" to HSIL. Specimen adequacy, however, was superior with CVs (P < .001). The cytologic diagnosis of HSIL correlated with the histologic diagnosis in 91% of the TP group and 100% of the CV group. CONCLUSION: Because there was no statistically significant difference in sensitivity and specificity of the two techniques, improved detection of cervical abnormalities and better specimen adequacy might not be a consequence of utilizing liquid-based preparations but of a better sampling technique. Removing mucus and cellular debris from the cervical surface with a cellulose swab before sampling cells with a proper sampling device results in the same sensitivity and specimen adequacy and is much less expensive than the liquid-based technique.

结论:因为两种技术在敏感性和特异性上没有显著性的统计学差异。提高了检测宫颈的异常情况和更多样本量可能不是使用液基的结果,而是用了更好的采样技术。在用适当采样工具之前,用纤维素拭子从宫颈表面去除黏液和细胞碎片,得到的结果是同液基技术相同的敏感性和充足的标本量并便宜得多的花费。

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19 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:27:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 16:49:00 编辑   Diagn Cytopathol. 2002 Sep;27(3):185-8.

Conventional and liquid-based cervicovaginal cytology: a comparison study with clinical and histologic follow-up.

Department of Pathology and Microbiology, University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha, Nebraska 68498-7549, USA. jbaker@unmc.edu

Increased rates of squamous intraepithelial lesion (SIL) diagnosis with liquid-based cervicovaginal cytology (CVC) methods are well documented. This retrospective study compares the ability of the ThinPrep Pap Test (TP) and the conventional Pap smear (CP) to detect biopsy-proven SIL and to exclude nonneoplastic disease. All CVC reports from January 1999 through December 2000 from seven community Family Medicine clinics affiliated with the University of Nebraska were reviewed. For women with at least one CVC diagnosis of epithelial cell abnormality (ECA), follow-up histology, cytology, and clinical data were obtained. Statistical analysis was performed using the chi-square method. SIL was diagnosed in 166 of 3,286 patients by TP (5.1%) and in 169 of 4,872 patients by CP (3.5%) (P < 0.001); 32 of the TP diagnoses (1.0%) and 34 of the CP diagnoses (0.7%) were high-grade SIL (HSIL). Atypical squamous or glandular cells of undetermined significance (ASCUS/AGUS) was the most severe abnormality diagnosed by TP in 218 patients (6.6%) and by CP in 279 patients (5.7%). Follow-up histology data on CVC SIL diagnoses showed evidence of cervical intraepithelial neoplasia in 94 patients screened by TP (2.9%) and in 79 patients screened by CP (1.6%) (P < 0.001); the biopsy diagnoses were CIN 2 or CIN 3 in 34 patients in the TP group (1.0%) and in 28 patients in the CP group (0.6%) (P < 0.025). Follow-up of patients in whom the first ECA CVC diagnosis was ASCUS or AGUS disclosed a positive predictive value for CIN of 22.8% for TP ASCUS/AGUS diagnoses and 11.9% for CP ASCUS/AGUS diagnoses (P < 0.005). In this population, TP was significantly better than CP in detecting biopsy- proven disease and in screening out benign abnormalities.

在这群人中的活检证实病变和良性异常改变检测中,液基细胞学实验大大优于传统涂片。

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20 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:27:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:05:00 编辑  Acta Cytol. 2002 May-Jun;46(3):453-7.

Histologic follow-up of atypical endocervical cells. Liquid-based, thin-layer preparation vs. conventional Pap smear.

Department of Pathology, University Hospitals of Cleveland, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the histologic findings in patients diagnosed with "atypical glandular cells of uncertain significance, endocervical cell type" (AGUS-EC) by ThinPrep Pap Test (TPPT) or conventional Pap smear (CPS) and to evaluate the clinical value of subclassifying AGUS-EC as "favor reactive" or "favor neoplastic." STUDY DESIGN: All TPPT and CPS diagnosed as AGUS-EC (favor reactive, unspecified and favor neoplastic) from January 1998 through December 1999 and all available histologic follow-up (defined as endocervical curettage, cervical biopsy, cervical conization or hysterectomy obtained within six months of the time of an AGUS-EC diagnosis) were obtained from a computerized database. RESULTS: AGUS-EC was diagnosed in 0.77% of CPS (683 of 88,825) and 0.59% of TPPT (183 of 30,968) (P = NS). There was no statistically significant difference in any of the follow-up histologic diagnoses between the CPS and TPPT groups. The majority of the follow-up biopsies demonstrated benign processes in both groups. Patients with a diagnosis of AGUS-EC "favor neoplastic" had a greater proportion of true glandular pathology as compared with AGUS-EC "unspecified" or "favor reactive" (P < .001). None of the patients with a diagnosis of AGUS-EC "favor reactive" were found to have true glandular pathology; however, a minority of them proved to have squamous pathology. CONCLUSION: In this study there was no difference in CPS and TPPT in regard to the specificity of a diagnosis of AGUS-EC for true glandular pathology. Subclassifying AGUS-EC as "favor reactive" or "favor neoplastic" may provide valuable information for directing patient follow-up.

结论:在这个研究中,通过确诊的腺体病理证实ThinPrep实验同传统巴氏涂片在诊断AGC(颈管来源)的特异性没有差异。AGC(颈管来源)的次分类“AGC倾向反应性”或“倾向肿瘤”为指导病人的后续追踪提供了宝贵的信息。(注:2001版之前的TBS语言都改为2001版的语言)

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