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let us have a discussion: 宫颈液基 vs 传统刮片

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楼主 发表于 2009-03-07 23:03|举报|关注(0)
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Recently I noticed some topics related liquid based cytology (LBC) and conventional Pap smears (CP) in this website. We know that the price of LBC is higher than CP.

Hope we can discuss the disadvantage and advantage of both methods.

What methods are used in your hospitals?

What method you think should be used in China now or future?

Also I will find some data to let you know the main methods used in other main countries. As of May 1, 2008, the United Nations has 192 members. In China we mention 国外, which include more than 190 contries.

Thanks

cz

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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-07 23:04:00 编辑
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61 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:28:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:22:00 编辑   Acta Cytol. 2001 Sep-Oct;45(5):709-14.

Does liquid-based technology really improve detection of cervical neoplasia? A prospective, randomized trial comparing the ThinPrep Pap Test with the conventional Pap Test, including follow-up of HSIL cases.

Cytology Laboratory of Jörg H. Obwegeser, Zurich, Switzerland. zylabob@swissonline.ch

OBJECTIVE: To compare the sensitivity, specificity and specimen adequacy of the ThinPrep Pap Test (TP) with the conventional Pap Test (CV) in a low-risk population with subsequent follow-up of HSIL cases. STUDY DESIGN: A prospective, randomized, controlled design was chosen to compare the TP with CV. Cytologic diagnosis and specimen adequacy were evaluated and compared with histology data in high grade squamous intraepithelial lesion (HSIL) cases. Fifteen gynecologists in private practice, all trained in colposcopy, participated in the trial. Cytologic diagnosis, specimen adequacy and follow-up of the cytologic HSIL cases were compared in the two groups. In total, 1,999 patients were included, 997 in the TP group and 1,002 in the CV group. Randomization assignments were designated on cytology case report forms, which were placed in sealed envelopes. Each envelope had a sequential randomization number on the outside to allow tracking and authentication of randomization assignments. RESULTS: Comparison of results between CVs and TPs revealed no statistically significant differences in all diagnostic categories, ranging from "within normal limits" to HSIL. Specimen adequacy, however, was superior with CVs (P < .001). The cytologic diagnosis of HSIL correlated with the histologic diagnosis in 91% of the TP group and 100% of the CV group. CONCLUSION: Because there was no statistically significant difference in sensitivity and specificity of the two techniques, improved detection of cervical abnormalities and better specimen adequacy might not be a consequence of utilizing liquid-based preparations but of a better sampling technique. Removing mucus and cellular debris from the cervical surface with a cellulose swab before sampling cells with a proper sampling device results in the same sensitivity and specimen adequacy and is much less expensive than the liquid-based technique.

结论:因为两种技术在敏感性和特异性上没有显著性的统计学差异。提高了检测宫颈的异常情况和更多样本量可能不是使用液基的结果,而是用了更好的采样技术。在用适当采样工具之前,用纤维素拭子从宫颈表面去除黏液和细胞碎片,得到的结果是同液基技术相同的敏感性和充足的标本量并便宜得多的花费。

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62 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:29:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:31:00 编辑   Br J Cancer. 2001 Feb 2;84(3):360-6.

Liquid-based cytology for primary cervical cancer screening: a multi-centre study.

Institut Alfred Fournier, 25 boulevard Saint Jacques, Paris, 75014, France.

The aim of this six-centre, split-sample study was to compare ThinPrep fluid-based cytology to the conventional Papanicolaou smear. Six cytopathology laboratories and 35 gynaecologists participated. 5428 patients met the inclusion criteria (age > 18 years old, intact cervix, informed consent). Each cervical sample was used first to prepare a conventional Pap smear, then the sampling device was rinsed into a PreservCyt vial, and a ThinPrep slide was made. Screening of slide pairs was blinded (n = 5428). All non-negative concordant cases (n = 101), all non-concordant cases (n = 206), and a 5% random sample of concordant negative cases (n = 272) underwent review by one independent pathologist then by the panel of 6 investigators. Initial (blinded) screening results for ThinPrep and conventional smears were correlated. Initial diagnoses were correlated with consensus cytological diagnoses. Differences in disease detection were evaluated using McNemar's test. On initial screening, 29% more ASCUS cases and 39% more low-grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (LSIL) and more severe lesions (LSIL+) were detected on the ThinPrep slides than on the conventional smears (P = 0.001), including 50% more LSIL and 18% more high-grade SIL (HSIL). The ASCUS:SIL ratio was lower for the ThinPrep method (115:132 = 0.87:1) than for the conventional smear method (89:94 = 0.95:1). The same trend was observed for the ASCUS/AGUS:LSIL ratio. Independent and consensus review confirmed 145 LSIL+ diagnoses; of these, 18% more had been detected initially on the ThinPrep slides than on the conventional smears (P = 0.041). The ThinPrep Pap Test is more accurate than the conventional Pap test and has the potential to optimize the effectiveness of primary cervical cancer screening.

ThinPrep实验是比传统巴氏实验更准确和具有做为初次宫颈癌筛查的潜在的高效率。

 

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63 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:30:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:46:00 编辑   Cancer. 1999 Apr 25;87(2):48-55.
Comment in:
Cancer. 2000 Feb 25;90(1):67-9.

Utility of liquid-based cytology for cervical carcinoma screening: results of a population-based study conducted in a region of Costa Rica with a high incidence of cervical carcinoma.

Women & Infants Hospital, Brown University, Providence, Rhode Island 02905-2401, USA.

BACKGROUND: In a study using a split-sample design, liquid-based cytology (ThinPrep Processor, Cytyc Corporation, Boxborough, MA) was compared with the conventional Papanicolaou (Pap) smear in Guanacaste, Costa Rica. The study provides the first population-based comparison of the ThinPrep screening technology and includes "gold standard" measures of diagnostic accuracy. METHODS: The population-based study was performed among over 8000 women residing in a Costa Rican province with a high incidence of cervical carcinoma. Conventional smears were prepared and diagnosed in Costa Rica, while the residual material on the sampling device was collected into a liquid preservative and shipped to the U.S., where ThinPrep cytologic slides were prepared and diagnosed. Cytologic diagnoses based on the two techniques, categorized according to the Bethesda System, were compared with a "gold standard" final case diagnosis for each patient, also based on Bethesda terminology, that reflected an integrated interpretation of all available data, including cytology, histology, and cervicography. Results were also compared with the results of HPV DNA detection (Hybrid Capture, Digene Corporation, Silver Spring, MD). RESULTS: ASCUS was the threshold for colposcopy referral. There were significantly more women referred according to this threshold with the ThinPrep slide (12.7%) than with the conventional smear (6.7%, P<0.001). Compared with the final case diagnosis, referral by ThinPrep slides detected 92.9% of cases with high grade squamous intraepithelial lesions (HSIL) and 100% of carcinoma cases. Smears detected 77.8% of HSIL and 90.9% of carcinomas. Thus, ThinPrep cytology was significantly more sensitive in the detection of HSIL and cancer (McNemar test, P<0.001). Adjudication of cases in which the ThinPrep and smear diagnoses disagreed, using the final case diagnoses and the HPV DNA test results as reference standards, suggested that the ThinPrep method was detecting additional true SIL as opposed to false-positives. CONCLUSIONS: In a population-based study of high risk women, ThinPrep cytology demonstrated significantly increased sensitivity for detecting HSIL and carcinoma, with a concurrent significant increase in colposcopy referrals.

结论:在一个人口为基础的高风险妇女的研究中表明ThinPrep细胞学显著提高检测HSIL和癌的敏感性,同时大大增加了阴道镜的推广。

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64 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:32:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-21 17:58:00 编辑  Praxis (Bern 1994). 1998 Oct 21;87(43):1434-40.

[Comparison of conventional PAP smears with thin layer specimen (liquid-based PAP test) and correlation with cytopathological findings with HPV status using the hybrid capture system]

[Article in German]

Spital Pflegi-Neumünster, Zürich.

Cervical smears of 554 outpatients of a hospital were examined using a blinded, split sample match pair protocol for which a conventional PAP-smear (CS) was first prepared with Cervex brush and the reminder of the sample was used for the thin-layer-preparation (TLP) according to the manual CytoRich System. The preparations of the two methods were compared with respect to quality and to sensitivity for atypias. In addition the HPV status was determined on the same cell suspension in cases with borderline changes (BLC) and dysplasias including carcinoma using the Hybrid Capture System. The use of TLP reduced the proportion of suboptimal preparations by more than 50% (14.6% vs. 35%) and eliminated the only inadequate preparation registered in CS. The DSP detected more than twice as many dysplasias of all degrees as CS (3.4% vs. 1.4%) and reduced the proportion of BLC to one third (3.2% vs. 9.6%). The percentages of cases positive for high- and intermediate-risk HPV in preparations with BLC, LSIL and HSIL were 17, 62.5% and 100% respectively. The TL-method improves significantly the efficiency of PAP-smears and allows the typing of HPV which is of clinical importance for the management of low grade squamous intraepitelial lesions and borderline changes. The findings speak against the further use of CS for cervical screening.

这种薄层方法比传统巴氏涂片大大提高了效率和通过HPV的分型对LSIL和交界性改变进行重要的临床管理。这个结果表明反对进一步的用传统巴氏涂片进行宫颈癌筛查。

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65 楼    发表于2009-03-19 04:44:00举报|引用
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 I did a brief literature search on comparision of conventional smear and liquid based cytology. I picked the main studies and paste here. The abstracts are listed from current to before. These studies were from many different countries, developed, developing ones. I saw some studies from Hong Kong. When we evaluate a method for screening test, we need to consider sensitivity, specificity, positive predict value and negative predict value. Of cause more factors including easy and simple to perform, unsatisfactory rate, cost effect et al need to be considered also.

I just hope we Chinese pathologists know the fact or the truth in this area even though we may not be able to do LBC now due to current conditions in some hospitals or areas. The best way to know some topics is to read the original papers.

I will appreciate it if some ones can translate the conclusion parts in each abstracts I highlight.

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66 楼    发表于2009-03-19 07:07:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-19 07:07:00 编辑

这帖太有价值了.

讨论完了,你会发现,重要的是在人,在工作态度,而不是在采用哪种方法,有时间具体回.

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67 楼    发表于2009-03-19 10:24:00举报|引用
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 赵老师幸苦了!

如果真要比较这两种制片方法的优劣;我个人认为这样设计一个实验或许有意义:

1、都用刷子取材(同样的取材方法)

2、传统涂片用刷子正反面各涂一张片子(尽可能多的把细胞成份转移到片子上);液基纸片也制两张。

3、用统一的细胞学报告语言诊断(TBS2001)

4、后续处理都一样的。

5、这个样本量要大(1万例以上)

6、完全学术上的实验,不算经济账(因为有时私利也可以影响实验结果)

       这样才真正的能比较两种制片方法的优劣;如果单纯的比较很多不可控制的因素那样的结论就没有多大意义。

      不管这两种方法结果怎么样,赵老师给我们提供的信息指导我们每个人要有自己的“慧眼”,识别其中的“真伪”!

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68 楼    发表于2009-03-20 09:08:00举报|引用
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 Good plan. Do you want to organize the project?
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69 楼    发表于2009-03-20 10:58:00举报|引用
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 主要原因是人不行。咱们病理医生受的训练不行。妇科医生涂片质量不行。这是主要原因。如果用传统涂片,好的妇科医生加好的病理医生,水平会很高。反这用再多的液基,收再多的钱,不行还是不行。
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70 楼    发表于2009-03-20 22:20:00举报|引用
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 液基的优势之一是更容易标准化,但是标准化要从源头做起,也就是从试剂的生产供应做起,不知现在是否有液基的国家标准。
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71 楼    发表于2009-03-20 23:03:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-25 07:36:00 编辑

 In the US Thin Prep Pap tests from Cytyc account for70-75% of the marketing; SurePath (BD)accounts 20-25%, others for 5%. 

http://www.cytyc.com/international/international.shtml

http://www.bd.com/tripath/

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72 楼    发表于2009-03-20 23:05:00举报|引用
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 国内很难统一,液基市场混乱无比,为了赚钱,很多商家一窝蜂的做液基。

据说还有耗材五元钱的国产试剂,这样的试剂耗材能做出什么样的好片子呢?!这个市场不整顿,国内液基水平很难提高,没有优质的制片,怎么能有高水平的细胞病理医生?!

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73 楼    发表于2009-03-21 09:28:00举报|引用
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 This week I am in service of Pap tests. Totally I have 290 cases with abnormal Paps including ASCUS above, reactive, bacteria, endometrial cells et al. 160 of these cases have high risk HPV tests. HPV tests are ordered based on ASC-US, ASC-H, or women >30 years, or HPV testing regardless. I just want you know the duty we have here.  I do not know how many Paps your people will read per day or per week. Only 2 /290 Paps were conventional Paps. Each conventional Pap needs two smears based on our rule. Tell you the truth I am really tired of the conventional Pap.
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74 楼    发表于2009-03-21 19:40:00举报|引用
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以下是引用cqzhao在2009-3-20 9:08:00的发言:

 Good plan. Do you want to organize the project?

谢谢赵老师,这个实验我放在这里就是希望我们有同胞或者同行能做;因为我目前还没有办法能进行一个这么大的实验设计。
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75 楼    发表于2009-03-21 19:42:00举报|引用
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 赵老师,您给我“布置”的结论部分的翻译终于完成;有些肯定翻译不对;请您和看到这些帖子的老师给予指正和修改,谢谢!
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76 楼    发表于2009-03-21 20:40:00举报|引用
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 To   掌心0164:

Thank you very much for your excellent translation.

Can u tell us why you change your user name if it is not a secret? You do not need to answer.

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77 楼    发表于2009-03-22 10:51:00举报|引用
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 赵老师,谢谢您!其实改名字主要原因如下:

1、掌心0164是我99年第一次上网的时候的第一个网络名字(10年了),有纪念意义。

2、我的邮箱zhangxin0164@yahoo.com.cnzhangxin0164@qq.com都来源于“掌心”的汉语拼音。

3、最重要的是我希望自己:在这个纷繁复杂的社会中,能做一个掌控自己内心中所思、所想和内心中最向往的东西;不希望被太多的外在东西左右了我心灵深处的想法;所以取这个名字也是对自己一种警示作用。

4、原来的“兰青风采”有被人误认性别的嫌疑,哈哈。

     以上就是我改名的原因,希望您能喜欢。

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78 楼    发表于2009-03-22 12:20:00举报|引用
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 Good point. Hope you can always be yourself.

原来的“兰青风采”有被人误认性别的嫌疑. It is true that i always assume you were a young girl.

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79 楼    发表于2009-03-24 20:16:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-26 22:10:00 编辑

 I asked my best American friend Dr. Austin to get some information about LBC and convention Pap ratio in different countries.   I would like to introduce him in our web after I got his permission. He loves Chinese. I told him the story about our web.(我从我最好的美国朋友Austin博士哪里得到了一些关于不同国家使用液基细胞学和传统涂片比例的信息。得到他许可后我很高兴地在我们网站上介绍他。他喜欢中国人。我告诉过他关于我们网站的事情。) 

Dr. R. Mashall Austin is Professor of Pathology and Director of Cytopathology ar Magee-Womens Hospital, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Dr. Austin is a 1977 graduate of the Duke University School of Medicine Medical Scientist Training Program (MD, PhD) where he earned his PhD in virology. He received subspecialty training in Gynecologic and Breast pathology and Cytopathology at Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP) from 1983-1986.(R. Mashall Austin博士是匹兹堡大学医学中心Magee妇产医院病理学教授和细胞病理学主任。Austin博士于1977年毕业于杜克大学医学院,获得医学博士学位(MD), 并获得病毒学哲学博士学位(PhD)。1983-1986年,他在武装部队病理学研究所接受了妇科、乳腺病理学和细胞病理学专科训练

Dr. Austin is an active researcher, author, lecturer. His current areas of research interest focus on cervical cancer screening, risk managment, new technology, and public and professional educatin in cervical cancer screening. He is international well-recognized gynecologic cytopathologist. Dr. Austin is a leading medical ligal consultant in cases involving cytology litigation in the USA. He is a past President (2004-2005) of the American Society of Cytopathology (ASC) and served as Advisor to the Cytopathology resource Committee of the College of American Patholofists (CAP). Dr. Austin has served as section editor and on the editoral boards of numerous publications, among the Archives of Pathology and Laboratory Medcine, Diagnostic Cytopathology, Cancer Cytopathology, Acta Cytologic, and CytoJournal. (Austin博士是一位优秀的研究人员、作者和讲师。他目前的研究兴趣主要集中在宫颈癌筛查中的宫颈癌筛查、风险管理、新技术和公众及专业人员的教育等方面。他是国际公认的妇科细胞病理学家。Austin博士是美国的细胞学医疗事故的医学法律顾问领导组成员。他是美国细胞病理学会前任主席(2004-2005)和担任美国病理学家大学委员会细胞病理分会的顾问。Austin博士一直担任着许多出版物的主编和编辑,其中有《病理学档案和实验室医学》、《诊断细胞病理学》、《肿瘤细胞病理学》、《兽类细胞学》和《细胞杂志》。)

 


名称:图1
描述:图1
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80 楼    发表于2009-03-24 20:37:00举报|引用
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本帖最后由 于 2009-03-26 17:27:00 编辑

 Dr. Austin asked his friend Jeff Keene to get the information.

(Austin博士从他的朋友Jeff Keene哪里获得的信息。) 

Mr. Keene is Director of Global Communications, Hologic/Cytyc Corp (compay to make ThinPrep Pap Test, TPPT). This information is a business issue to a company. So I think the data are relatively accurate. The company has not information in China. I do not know it is good or bad.  (Keene先生是赛迪(Hologic/Cytyc Corp )公司全球联络部主任,这是一公司的商业信息。所以我认为这些数据是比较准确的。但是这个公司没有关于中国的信息,我不知道是好还是坏。)

 UK and Ireland 100% LBC, 67% TPPT, 33% SP

 (英国和爱尔兰100%液基细胞学,67% TPPT, 33% SP)

Benelux 60% LBC, 55% TPPT, rest mainly SP 

(Benelux 60%液基细胞学,55%TPPT,余下主要是SP) 

Suisse 75% LBC, 60% TPPT, rest mainly SP 

 (瑞士75%液基细胞学,60% TPPT,余下主要是SP)

German 10% LBC, 60% TPPT 

 (德国10%液基细胞学,60%TPPT)

Nordic 15% LBC, 80% TPPT

(北欧15%液基细胞学,80%TPPT) 

Australia: 100% Conventional with 25 % of women paying for an additional TPPT

 (澳大利亚100%传统涂片和25%自费加做TPPT)

NZ- 60% conventional 25 % TPPT and 15% other LBC

(新西兰60%传统涂片、25%TPPT和15%的其他液基细胞学) 

For China we do not have what we would consider reliable market share data.

 (对于中国,我们没有可靠的市场份额数据。)

Hope this helps

 (希望这些有帮助)

Jeff Keene, Director Global Communications and Payer Relations,Hologic/Cytyc Corp

Jeff Keene是赛迪公司全球联络部主任和付款联系人

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